#240: Getting Media Attention For Your Plush Brand with Hugimals Founder Marina Khidekel

Ever wondered how a toy brand can also serve as a wellness tool? In this episode of Making It In The Toy Industry, Azhelle Wade interviews Marina Khidekel, the founder of Hugimals World. Discover how Marina transitioned from a successful health journalist to a toy entrepreneur on a mission to address anxiety and stress with weighted plush toys. Marina shares personal life experiences that inspired the creation of Hugimals, which has been featured in prominent media outlets such as, Time Magazine, Parents Magazine, Good Housekeeping’s Best Toys, and the Today Show’s It List. During this chat you’ll learn a bit about product development and distribution, the brand's marketing strategies (plus how to make them your own), and the power of thoughtful media engagement. 

Marina Khidekel details her unexpected journey into the toy industry, highlighting the importance of aesthetic appeal and emotional connectivity in product design. Walk through the challenges and triumphs of launching a plush line, and creating a whole new category in the toy industry.Marina shares her experience working with experts to ensure product efficacy, and how grassroots efforts led to media success.  If you are considering launching a toy line in a newish category that may not be getting a lot of love right now, this episode is a must listen.

Listen For These Important Moments

• 02:51 Marina’s Journey: From Journalism to Toymaking
• 04:49 Creating a New Toy Category During the Pandemic
• 05:55 Aesthetic and Design Story of Hugimals
• 08:12 Hugimal’s Recognition in Big Publications
• 12:19 Role of Pilot Programs in Product Validation
• 25:46 Leveraging Media Expertise for Brand Success
• 29:55 Changes in the Media Industry
• 35:27 New Products from Hugimals World
• 38:49 Importance of Experts & Research in Toy Development
• 49:37 Marina’s Favorite Toy as a Kid

Transcript

[00:00:00] Azhelle Wade: You are listening to Making It In The Toy Industry, episode number 240. 

[00:00:23] Hey there, Toy People! Azhelle Wade here, and welcome back to another episode of Making It In The Toy Industry.

[00:00:29] This is a weekly podcast brought to you by TheToyCoach. com. Today on the podcast, we've got my friend and founder of this cute, cuddly plush that I have in my arms if you're watching the YouTube video, Marina Khidekel. So Marina is the founder of Hugimals World, a two year old award winning toy and wellness brand that makes lovable premium weighted plush for anxiety and sleep.

[00:00:54] I actually keep my Hugimal on my bed at all times. It's me, my Hugimal and my husband, as I was telling Marina at night. Hugimals has been recognized in Time Magazine, Parents Magazine, Good Housekeeping's Best Toys, and the Today Show's It List. And this toy has been a TOTY nominee for the Best Plush. Prior to launching Hugimals World, Marina was a health and wellness journalist, and editor at Women's Health Glamour and Cosmopolitan, and a chief content officer for Thrive Global. She currently writes a column on Founder Life for Ink.

[00:01:26] Marina, welcome to the show. And I'm excited to hear more about your founder's journey. 

[00:01:30] Marina Khidekel: Thank you so much, Azhelle. It's so great to be here with you. I love this podcast. I'm so excited.

[00:01:35] Azhelle Wade: I'm so happy to have you. I don't know what I've been waiting for. I think I just, I have too much to do. 

[00:01:40] Marina Khidekel: But before we dive into my questions, I want you to answer this one question for me. The thing that surprised me most about the toy industry was

[00:01:49] Oh, How long some of the people have been doing it? When I went to my first toy trade show, it was amazing. It was like, there's people who have owned stores or been founders or been at toy companies for 30, 40 years. It's a really established industry and there's a lot of innovation happening.

[00:02:06] Azhelle Wade: Yes, that's so true. Yeah, some people have been in this industry for 40 years. And I still remember walking into my first day at my first toy job and thinking, I can't even imagine doing this for four years.

[00:02:16] It wasn't the toy industry, it was like, I can't imagine coming to the same building, doing the same job for four years.

[00:02:24] Azhelle Wade: And there are people out here, they will retire at a company if you let them, they will. And I get it now. When I was 20, I didn't get it, but now I get it.

[00:02:32] Marina Khidekel: It's true. I mean, it speaks to how magical this industry can be.

[00:02:35] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay. So first I would love to start with talking about the early stages of launching a toy plush brand. 

[00:02:42] What inspired you to start a toy brand specifically one in the health and wellness space? Was it something that you saw when you were researching and writing articles?

[00:02:51] Marina Khidekel: It goes earlier than that. And so I grew up in Ohio, but I moved to the United States when I was two. My family immigrated from Russia. And like a lot of immigrant families, mental health was not really discussed in my family. It was " If you're not bleeding or dying, pick yourself up.", " What are you complaining about?", "We didn't move to this country for you to complain." I read teen magazines to sort of understand that other people were talking about mental health and there's different ways to be and there's help out there. And so I vowed to do that, to work in magazines and help other girls and women. and that's what I did for 20 years. I worked in magazines and then I went to run the content for Thrive Global, Ariana Huffington's health and wellness enterprise app. I did that for four years. but while I was at these jobs, had a lot of stress, especially at night, like the media industry was changing.

[00:03:38] There's constant layoffs, and if you weren't laid off, you absorbed three people's jobs, and it was just a lot, you know, and that was me, and I couldn't sleep at night. my mind would race constantly, and I calm it down. I tried a weighted blanket, and I liked the weight of it. It's called deep touch pressure.

[00:03:54] I really like that, but the whole blanket felt a little bit smothering to me. And so I actually was using my husband's arm as a weight to help me fall asleep. And that worked for me but not for him, sadly. so when he was like, got to find something else, started researching other smaller weighted products.

[00:04:11] I found some weighted plush, but at the time there weren't many they weren't very weighted. They weren't very aesthetically pleasing and, they didn't hug you back. and that's what I wanted. So yeah. ended up just, making a prototype, hiring an amazing prototype maker to make one for me.

[00:04:24] and we went from there, but basically I just wanted stuffed animal that was heavy enough to work in adults. That was aesthetically beautiful enough that I wouldn't be embarrassed to have it out in the living room and that hugged you back. And I wanted it to work for kids and adults. And that's sort of now with a physical products.

[00:04:41] my mission to help people with, stress and anxiety and mental health, I was doing it with journalism and now I'm doing it with a physical product. 

[00:04:49] Azhelle Wade: Your product created category in the toy industry, a category which I believe was budding from the pandemic, but no one took the leap to build an entire brand around it and then put weight behind that brand. there are other weighted plush brands, but the weight like you put behind it said, I know people need this and I'm going to talk about it.

[00:05:15] Like it is the hottest thing, the most necessary thing. Like I mean, all of these magazines and publications you've been featured in weren't an accident. You got yourself out there and you got visible with your product. But when I think about. Like I have seen other weighted products, but what yours has that's so special is like a style.

[00:05:35] you can see like Hugimals World has like a soft almost pastel mixed with nature color palette. Maybe it's a soft nature color palette, actually. Yeah, it's like a, so Hugimal is like a soft nature color palette. The design of the characters is consistent. The vibe of the brand it's like home decor almost.

[00:05:55] Azhelle Wade: having that cohesive of a brand. is not an easy feat. Did you know what you were creating? Did you already have a clear vision? Or did you listen to people along the way that were giving you feedback make his eyes a little bit like this, calm down those colors a little bit like that.

[00:06:11] Tell me a little bit about building out this brand.

[00:06:13] Marina Khidekel: Yeah, really great observation. And I love that term that you used. You're right. Like I am an aesthetically driven person. I wanted something that was beautiful and high quality and, adults would want to use it as well as kids. And so I started with the animals and I started with the color palette. which is inspired by river rocks.

[00:06:31] So all the 

[00:06:32] Oh! So smart. Yes. Yeah, you're so observant. So the eyes I wear eyeliner and everyone was like, did you make them to copy your own eyes? 

[00:06:42] Marina Khidekel: Oh, after I made them, I was like,I didn't know. But of course, like I worked with Professional to do this.

[00:06:49] I am not a character artist. I still work with the character artist. when we were creating these and creating the prototypes for them. And she's amazing. And she really gets, the look that I'm going for. So I was working on this line for four years behind the scenes when I had full time jobs, not sure if I was going to launch it or license it or what to do.

[00:07:08] In that time, I interviewed a lot of experts, so psychologists, occupational therapists, toy designers I wanted to do all the research, so when I launched it, I knew it would be like, buttoned up in a really, really high quality product that could actually help people, and when I spoke with psychologists, they suggested, That plush stuffed animals that were always smiling, like big perma smiles.

[00:07:29] They can come off actually as aggressive or judgmental to kids, especially when they don't feel like smiling when they don't feel great. So they suggested, make them pleasant and make them sweet, but make them empathetic. And I was trying and trying to do that and we ended up not having them smiling at all and a lot of people tell us "Oh my gosh! Like I come home from work and you know, charlie The puppy is looking up at me and telling me everything's gonna be okay And that's exactly what I was going for like I wanted them to be empathetic to whatever you were feeling they were there to help.

[00:07:58] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. It's not like when you're in a bad mood and your plush is "Hey!", and you're just like, "No, We're not at that level right now." 

[00:08:04] I have to go back to what you said. You hired experts. I have to go back to this because you know, I have a program, Toy Creators Academy. I know you haven't taken this program, but I should show you inside of it. But what I am always teaching my students is like hire the help.

[00:08:19] I have a list of service providers you should work with them. And so many people, actually not my students, but people that are on the fence of joining, and they'll have a one on one call with me to see if they should join, they'll show me what they've done already and I'll see their brand isn't quite there, it's so hard to explain why, but I'm feeling like we're getting somewhere with your story, because what is missing from some brands and honestly, you don't even know you're missing it. Cause you can't know without having the 10, 15 years of experience designing toys, but like what Marina has is a brand that was founded on a solid aesthetic. You had a vision. River Rocks was your vision. I'm assuming I could be wrong. You had some sort of mood board visuals. You gave your designer. 

[00:09:03] Marina Khidekel: I'm not that organized. 

[00:09:05] Azhelle Wade: So that's what I want to know. Like, how did you explain your vision to your designer that she carried it all the way through for you? Because I see so many people where it's not carried through.

[00:09:14] Marina Khidekel: True. So, I didn't know anything about the toy industry. I was, I'm a journalist, I'm a magazine editor. Here I am, like, not knowing what to do, wanting to make a product that, Didn't exist and thinking it's a stuffed animal. So toy. So I went to New York Toy Fair. I actually went a couple years in a row with my journalist badge and I had to turn it around because so many people wanted to to talk to me We 

[00:09:33] Azhelle Wade: Oh my gosh. 

[00:09:35] Marina Khidekel: so I went and I was just looking under the hood of these big companies being like Okay, well, I'm interviewing all of these experts warning of a child mental health crisis.

[00:09:44] This was like, even pre pandemic, through the pandemic, after the pandemic the only thing for mental health is fidget spinners, Why is nobody making a nice one of these? And so I realized nobody was doing it. I was like, okay. So I looked online. I found a prototype maker who had worked with other brands in the toy industry.

[00:10:00] I live in New York city. She was in upstate New York. and I emailed her and I was like, can you help me? The first prototype we made was not this. It wasn't bad, but I didn't necessarily have this. vision from the start. My inspiration is my mother in law had a puppy plush that she got in 1952 and we still have it and it's in our closet and like she comes over and visits it, but it lies on its side.

[00:10:24] It's like sleeping. She named it Taffy and it's this color, was a different construction. it's like a sleeping flat bottom. Yeah, laying down. like, that's great. Like you could just lay it on you. Like it's sleep. These are for sleep. So the first prototype this size, but it was in that construction. Yeah, and it was a great puppy. It wasn't this color. and I loved it 

[00:10:43] And I still have three of them in my closet. What happened was I originally wanted to license the idea. I ended up doing that with some help at Toy Fair 2020. And I licensed it to a company who bought other toy companies.

[00:10:57] And they had purchased Great Baby Company, they make this twilight turtle. The founder of CloudB, Linda Suh, she was was there at the time, and she helped me so much, she helped me like find the right factories, find a seamstress.

[00:11:09] And, we went through some terrible prototypes. I will tell you. But when we, found the right professionals, like a seamstress and a character artist that works, I remember getting samples, sending them back cause they weren't right, getting samples, And then finally, one day I got a box. I took our Sam the Sloth Hugimal out of the box. And I looked at his little face and I was like, "We got it. Like, this is right.", I knew instantly that this was the Hugimal and then we went on from there to do the other animals. We launched with just four. Now we have six. 

[00:11:37] And so in time that company got bought by a media company. They no longer put out physical products. So I inherited about 10, 000 units of inventory and it wasn't without fees like I had to pay. Storage, there was a lot of like complications with people involved and, it wasn't an easy thing.

[00:11:53] Like here, I just have an inventory now that I did, but at that point when I had to make a decision what do I do with this thousands pieces of inventory, do I throw them away or do I quit my job and my career and start a business selling weighted stuffed animals. I decided to start my own company and start Hugimals World because at that point, I had done a toy foundation actually helped me. I don't think they do pilots like this anymore, unfortunately, but it was great. They got wind of Hugimals.

[00:12:18] They were like, we'll help. We sent them to five different hospitals. And when the feedback came in, the hospital staffers were saying these calm our most agitated patients in minutes. How can we order more? And at that point, was like, okay, these work. I'm quitting. I'm starting a company. 

[00:12:33] Azhelle Wade: Wow. And this pilot program, talk to me more about that. Was the pilot just, we have a place for you to send your product. You have to send us this much product and you pay a fee to do that? Okay. 

[00:12:43] Marina Khidekel: I didn't pay a fee. There were like certain hospitals who had needs for their patients that they were looking for help to meet and the toy foundation at the time 

[00:12:53] Azhelle Wade: That's the non profit arm of the Toy Association. Right.

[00:12:59] Azhelle Wade: Well, we might have to reach out to them and talk to them about that because if, yeah, if there's any way we could help them do that again with the connections we have with students with inventory, that would be amazing. 

[00:13:09] Marina Khidekel: That would incredible because that feedback solidified the efficacy of the product that I was launching so much that I was like, okay, it's ready to be out in the world. I have validation now. 

[00:13:19] Azhelle Wade: And I bet you had messaging, like the messaging that they said probably was what you used to pitch it, right? 

[00:13:25] Marina Khidekel: Absolutely. Most of them were child life staffers at hospitals, they're amazing. And there's not enough of them. Basically, they coordinate between the families and children. And the hospitals and make sure that the kids know what's going on and what to expect and all that stuff. But they were the ones deploying the Hugimals. And was like, "We keep these under a lock and key." Because we don't have that many." Maybe it was more than five, but they were like, "We give these to our code bear kids." And I didn't know what code bear meant.

[00:13:50] And I was like, "What is that?" She's " Well, we can't say code red over the loudspeaker when a child needs. intervention and security. We say Code Bear.", which I thought was just the most adorable thing. 

[00:13:58] Azhelle Wade: Oh 

[00:13:58] Marina Khidekel: And they gave the Code Bear kids a Hugimal and they were like, it changes their perception of what's happening in the room and they're calmer within minutes. And I still get chills thinking about that feedback. So yes, I infuse every early piece of marketing material with that feedback.

[00:14:12] Azhelle Wade: Wow.

[00:14:13] Marina Khidekel: Yeah, 

[00:14:14] Azhelle Wade: How many did you give for this pilot program?

[00:14:17] Marina Khidekel: I think it was around 100. Yeah. 

[00:14:20] Azhelle Wade: Wow. That's it. I wanna give people an understanding of, "Okay, how much should I maybe invest in creating before I go to full production?" You happen to already be in full production because you had a licensing deal that ended you with a lot of inventory. But if somebody were trying to replicate your process, but couldn't land a licensing deal, and then they said, okay, well maybe instead I'll create a hundred samples and send them somewhere to get that feedback. 

[00:14:43] Marina Khidekel: You can do it on a much smaller scale. Talk to your local health centers, social work centers, you know, since I've done that. I don't think you need to go that big to get validation, first of all.

[00:14:53] So you don't need to make a hundred units. You can make 10 and deploy them to people in need in different ways and get that feedback. But that feedback is your validation. To yourself and to other people that this product deserves a place in the world. Since then, I have been working with nonprofits who have used Hugimals and Heartwarming and heartbreaking ways. One nonprofit is associated with the FBI and they give hugs to kids and teens who are victims of traumatic crimes that the FBI investigate. So if you can imagine, just terrible, terrible stuff. and they found success with using hugs as a comfort tool. Another one gave them to kids, siblings who are separated in different foster homes, so they're hugging the same thing at night.

[00:15:33] But if I hadn't done that, pilot program. I would have loved to work with the nonprofits, but I don't know if they would have come to me or if it worked out. But that kind of validation works so much. If in your area that you're friendly with, you can contact, that's another way. It doesn't have to be a hospital. 

[00:15:47] Azhelle Wade: Oh my gosh. That is such great insight. That is fantastic. I'm totally taken into another direction. Earlier in your answer, you did say you had a licensing deal and that did not work out and you ended up on your own. But I just want to, float that to people like sometimes the path you think you're going to go on is not the path you go on.

[00:16:07] I tell my students, you can be an inventor who licenses ideas or you can be an entrepreneur who manufactures and sells your ideas or you could try both and see which one works out. And it, there's nothing wrong with changing paths and you did amazing changing your path. 

[00:16:22] Marina Khidekel: Thank you. Not all of it was. self directed. Some of it happened, and then You have to decide what to do, like, choose your own adventure, like, you're here now, what path do you take. It's not just me, there's, people I know who have tried one, and it didn't work out, and they did the other.

[00:16:35] Azhelle Wade: Amy Porterfield, shared one of her episodes on my podcast this past week, and she also talked about, A partnership that she had in her business that almost cost her business. Yeah. And that was about, I'm gonna say four years ago. It almost cost her business. But like she was forced into making a big decision and look at where she is today.

[00:16:56] She's fine. But it isn't interesting to know that you didn't necessarily have to pay for your very first run because it was a license deal. If things were different today, what do you think you would have done differently if you did have to pay for that first run yourself?

[00:17:08] Marina Khidekel: Basically, like I did pay a big chunk of my own capital that I haven't seen back yet it is just expensive to start a business If you're starting it like as a business right away, I didn't want to do kickstarter. People were like do a kickstarter or try that. I mean, I think it's just my personality Like I hated school. I hated college because I didn't think it was real I was like get me in a real life. Like I graduated college early I was like, this is fake can I just be out in the real world like making my life? So I think it was the same thing.

[00:17:35] I didn't want to do a kickstarter. I just wanted to launch a real business and see if it worked 

[00:17:38] Azhelle Wade: You're hardcore So once you went out on your own, I want to talk a little bit about distribution. It's not something we talked about too much on this podcast. When you were first starting, did you even know what distribution was?

[00:17:50] Marina Khidekel: I had an idea, but I didn't know the scope of it

[00:17:53] Azhelle Wade: What do you know now that you wish you knew then?

[00:17:56] Marina Khidekel: I had a sales partner who worked a long time in the toy industry. And I'm the kind of person that like, I know what I'm good at. I did our own launch press, that kind of thing we can talk about, but I Didn't know anything about the toy world and I didn't want to find out

[00:18:11] without having somebody who did know. So, I have had a partner who has explained sales from the start. there's direct to consumer, which is your website, usually Shopify. So I knew to make a Shopify site and try to start selling. And that's all I knew and then it was like, you know, should we go on Amazon? And I was like, Oh, what does that look like? Okay. Am I going to do it myself? I know founders who do Amazon themselves and I just don't have that strength, you know, it's like a black hole. Okay. We're on Amazon.

[00:18:37] My partner and her team are helping me, which is great. Then, okay. Specialty retail. I didn't even know what that word was. I launched up the Astra, um, the Astra show. And I, I didn't even know what specialty retail was. And it's just small stores or small chains of stores, like one or two owned by like real people in your town.

[00:18:56] It's like the mom and pop shop. I just didn't know what that was. And it's okay should we try to target specialty? You know, there's challenges with our product. It's a premium product. Okay. Actually, you can remove the weighted insert. It looks like a 

[00:19:08] Azhelle Wade: Ooh, I actually haven't done that. Oh my gosh, it's so well hidden. It's hidden. Right. 

[00:19:12]  Azhelle Wade:  I've know it was there.

[00:19:14] Marina Khidekel: I thought you knew. Yeah, so there's velcro. You can feel the weighted insert. It has little tiny glass beads and the reason you don't want to do natural materials like rice or anything.

[00:19:25] And I have a lot of people being like, can I make my own Hugimal? I'm like, you can. And they're like, I'm just going to use seeds. I'm like, you should not use a natural material like, seeds. or rice or, anything natural, because if it's yeah, it can mold, it can mold. And you don't want that anywhere around you or your That's why people use glass beads. And so, yeah, the way that inserts are movable, um, the machine, plush is machine washable. So it was a material. It was premium product. It costs $64. That's the price I landed on when I looked at the market. And so it's not going to be a target product.

[00:19:53] It's not in store product. You know what I mean? So I had to be like, to start thinking about my audience and even like retail, like who would appreciate a high quality product like this and who should we not even talk to? So I just started learning as I went because I had a really, great sales.

[00:20:10] mentor who has taught me a lot. The thing with Hugimals is it's not only toys. Lot of thought about okay, so we're now in uncommon goods. We're in sharper image. We're like these places that aren't necessarily

[00:20:21] Remember the chopper. Yeah, we're in their catalog. It's so cool. All these like different cool I didn't even know existed or existed anymore but we're on QBC now, you know. We've been on QBC for about a year we're in a lot of different channels now that I would not never have known or discovered as quickly how to get in.

[00:20:40] So I absolutely recommend hooking yourself up to a professional who has done this. Because as I said, the toy industry, there's people who know what's going on and how to do things. And if you don't, you can try, but it will take a lot longer than if you,

[00:20:55] you know, have a consultant for a short time or a contractor. I still don't have any full time employees for my company. We just turned two this summer. It's just me. I'm the only full time employee, but I have amazing contractors who help me with things I don't know how to do. 

[00:21:09] Azhelle Wade: Right. No, I love that because I was actually thinking, I'm like, man, I was like, I don't know. How did you do this without TCA? I don't know. But you did do, you honestly did a lot of the work that I teach my students to do. like research the market, go to the shows, meet people and service providers.

[00:21:24] I think the biggest difference is just having one person give you a lot of options and suggesting which direction to go for you. But you did all that legwork yourself. Like you did it all yourself. 

[00:21:34] Marina Khidekel: And it was not a smooth process. I will say,  there were a lot of bumps along the road. 

[00:21:40] Azhelle Wade: Sometimes it's okay. Like I get people coming to me all the time who like have already spent several thousand dollars developing their product in the wrong direction.

[00:21:48] And I have to tell them in the nicest way possible. Like I know you're not going to want to hear this, but you kind of have to start over, but it's not a bad thing because you wouldn't even be here today talking to me with the experience that you already have to bring to the table if you didn't do that.

[00:22:01] So it's fine. It's just par for the course. Everyone has their own journey. 

[00:22:04] Marina Khidekel: At this point, I mean, you got this. A million times more than me, but because now I'm two years into running this company, I get other toy founders and product founders, like asking for advice all the time and you're smart to charge for it. but I do like, I do like to help people who are where I was because I was helped.

[00:22:24] Like I just went to toy fair and started talking to people. That's what I did and it's hard to do that. I'm a deep, deep introvert, but, you know, I had a product I believed in and I did it. So absolutely. I will help people. I am the first to say very bluntly, like you need to change your packaging I would want to hear that. I would have wanted to hear that. I don't want someone telling me, you know, in a nice way, what they can tell just quickly and bluntly,

[00:22:47] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, sometimes I'll tell people things like that and I can tell they don't want to take it so then I have to be like you know what, go talk to this person and I know that person is going to say the same thing. 

[00:22:57] Marina Khidekel: Send them to me. 

[00:22:58] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, I should start doing that because it's a hard thing to hear. I've been there. I've had a friend tell me where I should show my product when I was doing my costume company and I did not listen to her. I did not believe her and she was totally right. I wasted years just trying to sell it on Shopify instead of going where my customers were at, which at the time was on Etsy.

[00:23:17] You just have to listen. I know it's hard. And you're like, I just did all this work, but there are people actually trying to give you a shortcut. Like they're actually seeing how good your product is. And they're seeing there's faster potential somewhere else. And that's all they're trying to do.

[00:23:31] Just put a timeline on it and say like, all right, I'm going to try this new packaging that Marina told me to do, and I'm going to give it six months. And if nobody likes it, I'm going to move on. You know, just give it a shot.

[00:23:40] Marina Khidekel: Yeah, I mean, when you do what I didn't just start talking to people, you're going to get a lot of different advice. And it's kind of hard to wade through. What do you listen to? What don't you listen to? That's why the most valuable advice I got was from potential customers, you know, like they would tell me like this or not like this. There were people in the toy industry absolutely. Linda, like i'm so sorry your prototype is not going to get it. Like my prototype is not this like I needed to hear that like it should not be on its side. Like, why would you want to do that?

[00:24:05] It can't make eye contact. You can't hug. So, I was like, yeah, you're right. I wanted it to hug you back and it doesn't, it just sits on you. And so, people are going to open your eyes, but I talked to lot of like potential customers, and the advice that I really took to heart, like, what would you want?

[00:24:18] Azhelle Wade: Yes. I would give people this tip. When you're asking people for advice, take the advice, but then also ask them why they're giving that advice. Because when you go back and you're sitting in your office and you're figuring out which advice you're going to take, understanding why someone did what they did is going to help you understand if that advice can actually apply to you.

[00:24:36] Because if somebody, honestly, like race can make all the difference. If somebody gave you advice because their race allowed them to get into a small black owners business conference that helped propel my business to the next level, I can't come here and tell Marina, "Oh, you know what you should do?

[00:24:52] Marina Khidekel: You should join a small black business conference." That's not going to work for you. everybody has like a different journey and you need to figure out like why they're giving you that advice so you can properly apply it to your business or know that it won't work for you. that's amazing advice. That's an amazing

[00:25:07] tip. I mean, I do think one of the hardest things about starting something is filtering all the advice that you get, you know, just filtering it. And sometimes you're going to make the wrong decision. it is ultimately your gut decision, but if several people are telling you the same thing, then listen. 

[00:25:20] Azhelle Wade: Yeah, actually you're giving me an idea. We're gonna put a custom ChatGPT tool in the show notes where you could put in all the advice you've gotten and put in your specific scenario or situation in your business, and it will suggest what you should do with the advice you've gotten.

[00:25:39] Marina Khidekel: I love it. The Making It In The Toy Industry GPT. 

[00:25:42] Azhelle Wade: Yes. Oh my God. Yeah, it's, 

[00:25:43] Marina Khidekel: Gotta do it. It's so good. 

[00:25:46] Azhelle Wade: Yes. Go to thetoycoach.com/podcast and find this episode for that. Okay. I want to quickly go onto topic number two. I want to talk a little bit about your marketing, which is ridiculous. Your growth, your scale. Hugimals has received insane attention from the media, Time, Parents Magazine, TOTY Award Nominee.

[00:26:05] I hope you get nominated again. What's your secret to getting that level of press for a two year old brand?

[00:26:12] 

[00:26:12] Marina Khidekel: So for the awards, you just apply. And you make it sound really convincing. I'm a writer, editor, and I even use ChatGPT sometimes. I'll be like, More heartfelt, More you know, like more heartfelt, you know, what I mean? More, yes, exactly. I will say, ChatGPT, if you use it, you need to edit it very closely. Needs an editor, you can't just use whatever it spits out. but I mean, the awards, I don't know if there's an art or science to that necessarily. But, being buzzy does help with those two. And the way that I did my own launch press And I will never have that energy to do that again, but I use all the energy I had. I called in every favor I had Oh my God. If you're launching something, you have one chance to make an impression. And that was something that was told to me that I was likeI was so scared about that like somebody was like you got one chance. It's just how it is. You can continue to do press you can continue to launch products but when you put your brand out into the world, you have one chance and it's the scariest advice I ever got but it's also true. 

[00:27:12] Azhelle Wade: Oh, my God. I wish I had that advice. I didn't. So wait, talk to me about that. like every time I launched Toy Creators Academy for me, I have that launch day, but when you were doing your launch, it just looked like you were having media attention every day for like two years, honestly. 

[00:27:26] Did you have a specific launch day in mind? And were you intentionally applying for a certain number of media? Did you have a calendar that you could share? 

[00:27:34] Marina Khidekel: Okay. So, I think everybody has an unfair advantage. My unfair advantage is that I was a magazine editor. I was fielding hundreds of pitches a day. when I worked at Cosmo, I would get pitches for motor oil and I would instantly put them in the trash. Cause what are you doing?

[00:27:47] Pitching? Like we don't cover cars necessarily. So I knew what to do and what not to do when writing a pitch. I'm not a PR person, but I was on the other side and getting the pitches. So I knew how to write a pitch. And I had some contacts in the media world and honestly, that really did help. However, the industry has changed so much since I was an editor that I don't know a lot of people and a lot of publications and I pitched cold just like anybody else would. That said if you know 

[00:28:13] anybody, a friend of a friend, a cousin's daughter who works at any publication, you need to call in all of your favors at that point. I will say like having contacts and relationships is the number one thing that will help you get press. And that's really hard to get. So cousins, mother's daughter, cousin's friends, anybody that you know who has any job at any online publication, you need to contact them. Send them a sample, like court them.

[00:28:40] Cause that really, really will help and it will repeat itself.

[00:28:42] Azhelle Wade: Can we talk through how you call in a favor? Because I feel like some people listening might be like, "Oh, so I'll just tell them I launched a plush brand and they should feature it. Right?" No, like... Yeah. I think you mean more like professionally call in a favor.

[00:28:56] Marina Khidekel: It depends on how well you know them. But I mean, I was DMing people I used to work with. And, when you say launch day, I didn't have a calendar, like do this, do this, do this, necessarily. My launch day was the day after I quit my job, and I posted on my own Instagram that I'm launching this thing, and here's a picture of me with a Hugimal.

[00:29:14] That really was it. And I waited to see, is anybody gonna like this? I left a 20 year media career to launch stuffed animals. What do you think?  Nobody knew I was working on it. It was just like a weird and some people were like reacting.

[00:29:26] They're like, "Oh, like what are you doing? I'm like Why? was like that reaction, but I think like the surprise I don't know if people like were concerned about me personally. It's like what was I doing? But it did endear people into the project. And so people would share on their own stories.

[00:29:43] Honestly, like that is sometimes even more valuable than press. Your mom, your cousin, your cousin's friends, have everybody share on their Instagram, Facebook, any social media they have . That is grassroots marketing. 

[00:29:55] Azhelle Wade: And you started to say that the industry has changed so much. Can you give us like two or three ways it's changed so much?

[00:30:01] Marina Khidekel: Yeah. First of all, it's much more of a gig economy, so there's less people on staff and more freelancers. Writing these gift guides that you want to get in, right? So, it's not necessarily the same editor every time covering it, or the same writer on staff. It's like a lot of freelance people that you don't know, that are like being tasked with writing these gift guides. Number Number two, I think like a lot of industries, it has folded in on itself a little bit. Like the salaries are not what they once were. There's not as many job openings and now there's a lot of very young people writing a lot of volumes of articles every day. And so the quality if you have that happening, the quality goes down too.

[00:30:39] So, you know, I think it's a lot of like. volume work. The third thing is that everything now is about affiliate marketing, especially if you have a product So a main publication, Travel + Leisure, Cosmopolitan, Glamour, In Style, Parents, whatever. Most of those publications will not cover your product unless they get a cut.

[00:31:02] That's how they stay alive now. It's a much different business model. So the way that you do that is you either go on Amazon and those types of publications love linking to Amazon and that's because they get a cut of everything somebody adds in their cart.

[00:31:14] Azhelle Wade: Yes. That I do the same thing. Whenever I have a guest like yours who has a product on Amazon, I'm like, yes! 

[00:31:20] Marina Khidekel: You do the same thing. You know, you're an affiliate. Getting on Amazon is a great easy way to have an affiliate at the ready. If not, most of the publication it's changing to most of them use something called Skim Links. And you have to sign up for share a sale, which is a huge affiliate platform, and then invite Skim Links to join your group.

[00:31:37] Yeah. Deal or whatever they call it and then anytime you pitch the media and you pitch we are on Skim Links and Amazon. Here's our Skim Links ID. So that's another way they use skim links.So Amazon, Skim Links, Nordstrom. I'm seeing a lot more uncommon goodsBut those are the best Places to be on that give you the best chance of coverage because those publications get a cut of the sale. 

[00:32:02] Azhelle Wade: Girl, that's a great tip.That's you. I mean, rewind right here and then just listen and then we're back. Okay. 

[00:32:09] Marina Khidekel: You're going to be spinning your wheels if you're pitching yourself for gift guides without affiliate.

[00:32:13] Azhelle Wade: Damn. what year do you see that change? 

[00:32:18] Marina Khidekel: So, when The Strategist launched, New York Magazine's The Strategist, Wirecutter, those kinds of places that do just product reviews, you know, like, it really started with that. 2018, and then it just got stronger. Way before Hugimals, I was doing a newsletter, personal newsletter project called Underrated and I would interview notable actors, chefs, musicians writers about their favorite places and things they were not paid to endorse.

[00:32:46] And so I like very early, I got on Amazon affiliate like you and I started earning a commission, but with my full time job, I just couldn't keep it going. And then The Strategist launched right after that. And I was like, okay, was doing the right thing. I just didn't have the bandwidth to do It 

[00:33:00] Azhelle Wade: It's really hard. like there are times in my weekly newsletter, I have a column section that says like "Toys I'm loving right now". And when there are toys that aren't on Amazon, I'm like, Oh, why aren't you on Amazon? But I don't love Amazon either. I honestly, I don't encourage my students to put all their products on Amazon.

[00:33:17] I say, put one of your assortment there just for this reason, because of how hard it is to combat knockoffs on Amazon for newbies, right? 

[00:33:27] Marina Khidekel: The struggle is real, yeah. you said something that was really flattering and important. You said we were the first to really be a weighted plush brand in the toy world, and I think that's true. And since then, you've seen proliferation of weighted plush companies in the toy world, one of whom was taking pictures of all of my assets in my toy fair booth when I turned my back and six months later came out with a line of weighted stuffed animals. 

[00:33:53] Azhelle Wade: You're lying. 

[00:33:54] Marina Khidekel: Oh no, no, no, no. They're a huge company, big company. It's easy for them just like that, you know, but theirs have no soul, they don't look like ours. They can't make them as high quality as ours. So it's just a customer. If you want this. 

[00:34:05] Azhelle Wade: I feel like maybe five years ago, they might have been able to, but now they can't. 

[00:34:10] Marina Khidekel: No. Exactly. So knockoffs are real. If you look on Amazon, we are Hugimals. Now there's hug love, la-hugga-loves, etc. There's every other weighted plush. Yeah. 

[00:34:21] Azhelle Wade: How do you keep it going? Because even I struggle with, I don't know if we could call it imposter syndrome, but more like doubt, self doubt when you see somebody mimicking what you feel is core to your brand. Cause since I've been The Toy Coach, I've seen other new, "The Toy" things come out and I'm not even the first "the toy". There was actually the toy queen that I didn't know of before I started.

[00:34:42] But the people that I've seen come out did know of me and intentionally did what they did, But when I see those things at first, I can't help but feel like almost like you said with The Strategist. Do I have the bandwidth to keep going up against this thing? How do you maintain the bandwidth when you do see "hug this, hug that", how do you do it?

[00:35:02] Marina Khidekel: I try not to look. Honestly, I mean. Same!

[00:35:05] I mean, just look at the reviews of the knockoffs, right? Like one of them cut a child with its velcro or like one of them, you know, they're just uncomfortable.

[00:35:12] This is coming off, this popped off, you know. If you look at the reviews, the difference is clear, but it's hard. And I think the only way to combat that, that. I've been able to figure out is just to continue to innovate. You know, separate yourself. So we have Hugimals in April of this year.

[00:35:27] We launched the heart to hug pillow, which is a weighted plush pillow. And then next week we're launching several new product lines that, some of them, first of its kind, you have not seen this thing before. For kids, for adults. Yeah, it's exciting.

[00:35:41] Azhelle Wade: What is it? What is it?

[00:35:43] Marina Khidekel: I love your excitement. Okay, so some of the products are more like adult leaning and some are more kid leaning. the more adult leaning ones, we have our five pound pillows. Now we have eight pound super sized ones. And so many of our customers are like, Oh, Please make a heavier thing.

[00:35:57] Like I want something to crush me. That's what they say. So we made a heavier one and a really cozy, like pocket, like a muff for So restless hands, if you're anxious, cold hands, if you're cold, stick them in there.

[00:36:06] And it's like the most comfy thing. It's the best gift ever. There's one that's round. So if you don't want a heart and you can have a round one, it's 10 pounds. and then we've got the hug ball and that's a kid leaning product that I worked with occupational therapists to create. It's a weighted plush ball of three pounds.

[00:36:20] It has different color sensory plush on it, so each of the three balls feels like a different breed of puppy, right? One's like a little one's like that and then they have two faces one on each side for social emotional learning. So the faces can help kids or anyone express emotions or needs if they can't express them otherwise or they're learning too.

[00:36:38] So it's sort of like a therapeutic fun toy product. Yeah, so that's cool and then coming next month our hug baby. So each Hugimal has a baby. 

[00:36:47] Azhelle Wade: That is literally the idea I had for you. 

[00:36:50] Marina Khidekel: They wrap around your wrist or ankle. So you can take hugs on the go, 

[00:36:55] Azhelle Wade: So, okay. Here's photo idea I have for this. I've been doing acupuncture. So when you were describing this, I was like, Oh, what if she had like tiny ones that I could just put them all over my whole body? Have a photo shoot of like little Hugimals, on my whole body. 

[00:37:07] Azhelle Wade: whole body. That'd be a cute photo, 

[00:37:10] Marina Khidekel: That would be an adorable photo. We did a photo shoot with the hug baby. So they don't hug with weight. They hug by 

[00:37:15] Azhelle Wade: Oh, Oh, there's no weight on that. I

[00:37:19] Marina Khidekel: So you can put it on your backpack. We had two child models in that photoshoot and the little girl, she was maybe 10. We had some Hugimals there, right? And so she put every hug baby, there's six on her arms, like lining her arms.

[00:37:30] And she asked the photographer, can I Simba? And so she took her cat Hugimal and she raised it like.. That is awesome! She came up with that. herself and I love that. Like, I love when our models have ideas Oh, the model is everything. She was great. 

[00:37:45] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that sounds awesome. 

[00:37:47] Marina Khidekel: It's exciting. Yeah. Right in time for the holidays. Gifts for everybody, you know. For dad, for mom, for friends, for kids. 

[00:37:53] So the hug babies are 11 bucks retail on our site. The five pound heart We have them now. The bigger pillows, the eight pound and the 10 pound ones are 88 bucks, which is still over a hundred dollars less than the other weighted pillow on the market. 

[00:38:08] Azhelle Wade: Oh, really? 

[00:38:09] Marina Khidekel: We work really hard to make our products accessible for people. Hug balls are 30 bucks and we have some new Plushies, a different line coming out early next year, which is exciting and I can't talk about. 

[00:38:20] Azhelle Wade: Okay. Have you been approached by Big Box? Target, Walmart, have you?

[00:38:24] Marina Khidekel: No, They don't know that we're launching all these new products. So to them, it's like a two product company. We've got Hugimals, and we've got the Hard to Hug Pillows, which we actually launched with the Joyful Heart Foundation and Mariska Hargitay from Law & Order: SV who founded it, so that was an amazing partnership.

[00:38:39] And I also just want to grow out the line before I entertain bigger conversations. I, I wanna be a world, Hugimals World, not just a Hugimal.

[00:38:49] Azhelle Wade: Oh, that's lovely. Okay. So I want to roll back a little bit. You mentioned that you work with occupational therapists and I'm asking this question selfishly because I just want to do something like this. So I want to work with external people to create products. And I'm curious when you do that how do you form that relationship?

[00:39:05] Is it like a written agreement that says, maybe they're getting paid a flat fee to give their feedback. Maybe it's volunteer. Maybe it's a percentage. how do you do that? 

[00:39:13] Marina Khidekel: My whole theory with all of this has been ask forgiveness, not permission. Just go. Go as fast as you can. And no, I don't give a percentage. I don't pay them. So when I was first creating Hugimals, I was a journalist. So I called them up and I'm like, I'm a journalist. I'm working on a product.

[00:39:28] Would you be willing to talk with me about, what you think this product should be? And so they helped me just with like their insights and multiple interviews. And then I would send them the sample and they just, they would help in order to promote the product. They would need a fee.

[00:39:41] Cause these are big, you know, experts that appeared in the press all the time. And so at that point, I wasn't ready for them. For this, for the hug ball. I worked with occupational therapists who had become fans of Hugimals and had contacted me being like, the product.

[00:39:56] I use it in my practice because Hugimals are now used in psychologist's offices. Occupational therapy practices, which is so cool. You know, like that's just, it's so worth it for me to run this company. It's not easy. So I just became friendly with some of them and I asked if they would help, you know, "Look at this copy or look at this product." or talk to me about this or that kind of thing. Yeah.

[00:40:15] Azhelle Wade: Wow. Okay. I do have to wrap up the marketing question and this probably be a quick answer for you. HARO changed to something recently called, was it called Connect? 

[00:40:26] Marina Khidekel: Connectively. I don't use it. HARO started up again. It's not as robust and absolutely subscribe. It's totally free. It's an email that comes every day with queries from journalists looking for sources or products to feature in their articles. And some days it'll be nothing related to you. And some days it'll be like the perfect thing for you. So you can easily just email the journalist, like pitch a thing. So I did want talk a little bit more about pitching journalists. 

[00:40:49] Azhelle Wade: Okay. Before we go forward, 

[00:40:51] HARO stands for "Help A Reporter Out". We'll put the link in the show notes. They did try to change to a pay to play platform. I'm so glad to hear that they're starting back up. I guess. I don't know what happened, but yeah, please share. What do you want to share about pitching? Go. 

[00:41:03] Marina Khidekel: The original founder started Haro up again because some of the other platforms are not as helpful. Like, they're paid. I haven't tried Connectively,

[00:41:10]  Azhelle Wade: I didn't either. No, because I'm like, I'm not going to pay for this. I have tons of media contacts. And even if they're still not at that place, they're probably somewhere else. And we'll just talk like there. And they'll just tell you like, no, here's -- no, no.

[00:41:21] Marina Khidekel: So here's the trick to pitching the media. You have to read the media like you have to, you know what I mean? Like, Okay, so here's what I mean about that. So, if you want to pitch Magazine X, you have to go online and read Magazine X or buy it at the newsstand or whatever, if they're still on the newsstand but look at what columns they have, like that they had to do every month.

[00:41:44] Look at the names. One really, really, really great, very, very easy thing that is time consuming, but not hard. Look at who your competitors are. Google them under the news vertical, not just all of Google, but choose news. Just like there's images, videos, there's news. So you pick the news and you'll see instantly who has covered them recently, what publications. You go to the publication that has covered your competitor or product in your realm and you look at how they're covering it. Is it in a gift guide for kids? Is it in a gift guide for moms? Whatever it is. Then you look at who's writing those stories and that is who you pitch. 

[00:42:19] Azhelle Wade: That's exactly what I teach in TCA. Yes. 

[00:42:22] Marina Khidekel: And that is why people source out PR because a lot of it is about relationships, but PR agencies have the relationships they have. And once they've exhausted those or not, there's not much they can't do for you.

[00:42:33] I feel like founders have a superpower to do their own PR. A lot of editors get pitched by this like PR machine.

[00:42:41] They know that it's a mass, spam email that they're pitching a million people. There's no heart. Like when I first pitched, I was like, "Hi, my name is Marina. I'm a former editor at these places. And I just founded this company and I think it would be great for this column. And, you know, here's a little bit more, here's the price.

[00:42:56] Here's where we're available." You know, some photos and that's it. And like, That's even more heartfelt, you know, like I think some editors really appreciate that just as long as you know what they write and you don't contact the person who does kitchen gadgets.

[00:43:08] Azhelle Wade: I think they do too. 

[00:43:09] And it's funny. when I first started the toy coach, I had a task, which I tell my students to do the same thing. Every week, I would pitch 10 outlets. That's what I did every week. So when we launched, it was like media. Cause I was like pitching and then I hired someone to help me with it.

[00:43:23] And she was an internal team member. So it was a little bit better. So what I noticed and tell me if you notice the same, it's like the really high level places. Like when I got on Marie Forleo, when I got on Amy Porterfield, when like those places, I feel like they liked her pitching for me.

[00:43:39] But again, she was very personal. She wasn't like, like when you hire a PR media company, they pitched me too for the podcast. And they just say Bob Wilson is an amazing person that you should have on your podcast and here's his book and here's his website and you should have Bob on your show.

[00:43:52] And they don't even listen to my show and that, but my person would send them letters that I wrote and say Azhelle is like very personal. She created this for this reason, it gave a vision of we were bigger cause she was helping me do it, but it was still personal. And it wasn't like that mass PR send. 

[00:44:10] Marina Khidekel: Yeah. So I really love that. I love that at the beginning, especially if you don't have other press or a celebrity endorsement or something to make people take notice. 

[00:44:19] Once you've been featured in an outlet or two that are like a name outlet, more outlets are just more willing to feature you because they're busy and tired and they don't want to vet a bunch of new products But if you've been featured in XYZ magazine that they know of like it's a legit product. You're not going to scam, I love that idea of at first, I know people create a fake PR person and pitch themselves from another email to like, if they can't pick someone, I know people who've done that and I swear by it because it does sound more professional. For me, I do think I had an advantage because I can say I was an editor at these places.

[00:44:51] So I'm not like some random person. However, like the second you get a piece of press say I've been pitched here. Later on, you're not going to want to like, blast you know, Let's say Cosmo, I've been covering Glamour, you know, so you're a competitor, it might annoy people, but if you're new anything that can validate, even if you can say, like, I've worked with experts on this, or a statistic, like this many people are experiencing anxiety and it's grown this much this year.

[00:45:14] And this product is a salve for that, you know. Make it relevant to the public conversation, because those are the stories that they're writing. Like by pitching, you're not pitching to get your product featured. That is not your goal. Your goal is to make the editor's life easier by giving something cool to cover that their readership will like.

[00:45:32] I mean, as an editor, I've gotten so many pitches saying like, please feature me. 

[00:45:37] Yeah. And they don't care. Like, No, you're in the trash. What's in it for me?

[00:45:40] I need to know like, you wrote a story on this. And last month, and I think this will fit into that topic in the zeitgeist this way, like that.

[00:45:48] Azhelle Wade: One example. Like I just saw a pitch before our call. Someone pitched me some dance game. Someone who used to work at Paramount created and they went out there looking for press. And the only reason I responded cause it was a generic PR pitch is because I'm a dancer.

[00:46:04] So I was like, Oh, I would love to do an episode where I get to dance. Yeah let's do an episode, but I know they have no idea what my podcast is. I know they don't know who I am. They just have a mass list and they just emailed this out and it makes me feel some type of way. But lucky enough, I 

[00:46:20] Marina Khidekel: No, they made a personal connection. That's something that worked for them, you know, like If you're a pediatrician and you made a product, If your kid has been dealing with this thing, put that in because their kid might be too or whatever it is.

[00:46:32] But that's a great example. You don't know, it might make a personal connection with someone 

[00:46:36] Azhelle Wade: It did. I thought, seriously, it was like Paramount, dance done. I was like, reply.

[00:46:42] Marina Khidekel: Well, it's exactly what we've been talking about, right? Paramount is a big, legit name. Dance is something you're interested in. Same thing for editors. Big name slash validation, even if it's work, whatever, plus something that's interesting to them. And that you know by reading what they have written.

[00:46:57] Azhelle Wade: Well, I should have said it's a dance game. So like game, it fits my podcast. Dance, it fits me. Paramount, betted. So, amazing.

[00:47:04] Marina Khidekel: Imagine like how much farther they could have gotten if they were like, "Hey, Azhelle, we love your podcast. "

[00:47:10] my You know, like "We heard you talk about that. You used to be a dancer." That is like what you want. 

[00:47:14] Azhelle Wade: Honestly, I also want. like these PR people to just remove their PR signatures that every time I see a PR signature, I'm like, you don't care. You don't even know who you're emailing right now. Like I hate those PR signatures. Like I hate it. It just makes me think are you going to open my reply?

[00:47:32] That's actually another thing. The PR companies don't always respond to the reply because they sent out so many masses. or the. I know, or they'll take a month and then I'm like, "Sorry, I'm booked." 

[00:47:45] Marina Khidekel: That's crazy. they're wasting you as a really amazing source. Another thing I will say is if you can, Offer to send a sample because people like free stuff. Or at least they'll have it and if it's in the office and people like it like that's happened with me with Esquire of all publications like still do go into the office some of the time. And somebody contacted me from them. I think it was a freelancer doing a gift guide thing.

[00:48:09] Hey, I just featured your product. I don't know if she heard about it through, I don't know. I don't think I pitched her directly. I was like, I would love to send some to your editor at Esquire so they can try it out. And she's I think she would love that. Here's their address. So I sent some to the editor and then I got an email from the editor being like, everybody in the office is obsessed.

[00:48:24] Everybody wants to get this for their people for Christmas. Like it's worth it. to send it and have them touch and hold and play with it .

[00:48:30] Azhelle Wade: Honestly, I tell my students, I'm like, you guys have it easy. Okay. I'm out here trying to market a digital product, a coaching service. Y'all have physical products that emotionally connect with people. You are so lucky. Like this is like the thing people want to write about. They don't want to write about me. They want to write about this, like this Hugimals. 

[00:48:48] Marina Khidekel: They want to use you. 

[00:48:49] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Yeah. They'll use me as a source but they're like, yeah. They're like, don't talk about yourself. Could you just talk about all your students? Like 

[00:48:55] Marina Khidekel: But yeah, a physical product, if it's a great product, you want to get it into the hands of the editors you really like.

[00:49:00] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. Oh my god. Marina, this has been an amazing conversation and I'm actually, after our closing questions, I'm gonna float a little idea by you, so stay on the line if you have a sec. 

[00:49:09] Marina Khidekel: I'm ready. 

[00:49:09] Azhelle Wade: Alright, so closing questions. Where can people go to purchase their Hugimals?

[00:49:14] Marina Khidekel: Yeah, you can go to Hugimalsworld com. That's our website. That's the place to go. You can find Hugimals on our Hugimals Store on Amazon. We are in Uncommon Goods. We are in a lot of brick and mortar stores too but hugimalsworld.com is the best place. 

[00:49:29] Azhelle Wade: We will write a blog post all about Hugimals to go along with this episode. So if you send me your store list, we can include it in that blog post. 

[00:49:36] Marina Khidekel: Perfect. I love that. 

[00:49:37] Okay, awesome. And then my favorite question, what toy or game blew your mind as a kid? So I had a stuffed animal. I don't know where it came from. It was a rabbit. It was small, but I was obsessed with that thing. I just would stare into its eyes. I thought it had the cutest face. It was my friend. If I was sad, I would like look into his eyes. I don't think it was smiling now that I think about it. Like Hugimals. But it was just such an emotional connection to that thing. I don't know why I would always like to pull its ears back so I can look at its cute face better. I just remember doing that. I loved, loved, loved that stuffed animal. 

[00:50:10] Azhelle Wade: What color was it? 

[00:50:11] Marina Khidekel: I think light tan

[00:50:12] Azhelle Wade: Did you have a name?

[00:50:12] Marina Khidekel: Um, I think I called it silver. 

[00:50:15] Azhelle Wade: Aw, cute! I also had a bunny. I got one for Easter. He was purple and he was Billy the Bunny. Yeah. I also was super obsessed with this bunny. Like I remember my nanny wanted to wash him once and I cried because I thought he was going to die. I was like, he's going to die in there.

[00:50:30] What do you mean? You're just like, you're going to drown him.

[00:50:32] Marina Khidekel: Oh my god. Well, if we make a Hugimal bunny, what should its name be? Keep in mind, all of our Hugimals, they have gender neutral names. So they can be whoever you want them to be, but their names are gender neutral. I actually think I have a name picked out. 

[00:50:46] Have you ever had your audience vote on a name? No, I've had my audience guess what character is coming tomorrow, and like, someone who guesses it right wins it.

[00:50:55] Azhelle Wade: Ooh. Okay. Well, I wonder if people could guess the name of your bunny. 

[00:50:59] Is it bunny? You said it's a bunny, right? 

[00:51:00] Marina Khidekel: Well, that's not the next Hugimal. The next Hugimal is something else, but Hugimals are, I mean, they're hard to make to get right. There's a lot of versions.

[00:51:07] Azhelle Wade: Okay. Not to go back to style. What's amazing is how they're all so different, but like they all look like they're in the same family. They've got a vibe.

[00:51:16] Yeah. Thank you so much, Marina. I do want to ask you to maybe you can email me this, but I want to ask you to give a question for our next guest. This is something new that we're trying out on the podcast, so you don't know who the guest is going to be. You just have to give a question and I'm going to ask them this question from you in our next interview. 

[00:51:37] Well, this was incredible. In today's conversation, we covered major pitfalls of being a toy entrepreneur. We talked about distribution. I'm sure that piece of the conversation helps so many of you.

[00:51:48] But then media, I was not expecting us. I mean, I guess I should have, cause you're a former editor, but I didn't expect us to go so deep in on media. And I know that episode or this episode is going to be super helpful for people out there. And everything that we talked about in this podcast is perfect for people that might be wanting to start a toy line of their own.

[00:52:05] And so that you guys know that even if you start out on the entrepreneur path, you can change it up. You can go on the inventor path and vice versa. If you start licensing your ideas, inventor. Things can get changed up and you can go the entrepreneur path. Don't get stuck to one way. Don't get stuck to one package design.

[00:52:21] Be open to taking criticism and critique from people that have been there before you. And Marina, thank you so much for all the insights from today's episode. 

[00:52:29] Marina Khidekel: So fun to talk to you. 

[00:52:30] Azhelle Wade: Yeah. And if you love this podcast and you haven't yet left a review, what are you waiting for? Your reviews keep me coming back week after week. And every time a new one comes in, I get notified on my phone and it really puts a huge smile on my face. I screenshot it, send it to my husband, the whole night.

[00:52:45] So if you love this podcast, please like the podcast, subscribe, leave us a five star review. And as always, thank you so much for spending this time with me today. I know that your time is valuable and that there are a ton of podcasts out there. So it truly means the world to me that you tune into this one. Until next week. I'll see you later, toy people. Bye.